SYNC 4 is QNX, the next gen units like the one in the new Lincoln Nautilis is QNX + Android with some Linux on other ECUs. MS is firmly gone from Ford vehicles.
This is useful information and the depth of your knowledge is impressive. Not that I expect operating system expertise from a car salesperson who has no reason to have any, but my salesperson told me it was still Microsoft. Thank you.
Suddenly I miss the Flex just a tiny, tiny bit less.
There’s zero MS in the stack on anything with SYNC4 and newer. Your salesperson is wrong. Even development is largely done on Ubuntu. SYNC 4 has two front ends, one’s Qt which has some Panasonic outsourcing baggage, the newer one is web based. The latter is what’s in the Mach-e. Since about 2017 all of this has moved in house. Ford hired the whole BlackBerry mobile R&D org in late 2016 - people, offices and everything. It’s had an honest-to-god software org since then.
Your Flex probably had the older SYNC iteration that was MS developed. BTW I’m not sure if it was Windows based or whether it was QNX with MS devs creating the software stack on top of it.
Sure, and for the eight years I owned it before it broke down beyond being worth repairing, I had no problem with those. The infotainment system did kinda suck, but it was a 2014 so I think it would get some leeway for that even if it weren’t Microsoft powered.
The emblem just offended my sensibilities. I never pulled it off, though, because the friends who rode with me all knew how passionately I feel about Linux (they mostly also work with it - I try not to proselytize to the disinterested) and found it funny.
According to KBB, the car was worth $8k when it broke down. I put almost double that into repairing the same part of the engine at three different mechanics before giving up. Sadly, for some silly reason, Ford no longer makes the Flex. I think the Explorer is pretty close, but I couldn’t find one close enough to test drive. I would have loved to convert my car to an EV, but I wouldn’t trust my own work on that front and didn’t want to pay as much as would cost to have a professional do it.
Every time I get into my new vehicle - a 2024 Ford Edge - I think to myself how much I miss the Flex. That said, I did get a great deal on the Edge.
That’s so painful and I feel for you.
I had the same situation with a Honda Element. (I’ve heard of people going to Flexes as a more recent but similar body haha)
Except for me, I broke it myself, and it was a VERY PARTICULAR bolt that nobody wanted to touch. Thing was leaking oil all over the place and nothing could fix it.
Turned a ~$4000 sale price to $800 junker haul-away. :(
But I got 219,000 miles out of it, so…
Here’s to those roomy boxy brick cars everybody called ugly but were absolutely awesome and refused to die…until they did. 🍻
Honestly, it was a car, a thing; I can’t claim legitimate pain. It makes me a little sad on occasion, but overall in my life it won’t matter. My mom, who loved aphorisms, would have said “by the time you’ve been married twice, you’ll forget all about it.” I plan to maintain my first and current marriage, but the sentiment fits.
I am very sorry for the loss of your Element! I was only in one once, but I loved the way the dials worked. Perhaps this humorous lyric from the song “Swagless” by Spose might provide some comfort:
I could sign and drive a boxy Honda SUV and not be in my element
219,000 is pretty solid for any car. I think I bought my Flex at 83,000 miles and sold it at under 100,000. Maybe the starting mileage was 73,000, but somewhere in that vicinity. That included using it as my primary transport vehicle when moving across several hundred miles (which, TBH, is probably what killed it - but I appreciated that I was able to use it and its vast cargo capacity.)
With reference to the toast at the end of the comment, I’ve always loved boxy vehicles. As a kid, my favorite vehicle was my dad’s 1984 Toyota Celica (though his was maroon, unlike the picture). It’s also the car in which I learned to drive a manual.
They don’t make many boxy cars anymore. The first time I saw a Flex was on the highway and I said to my passengers “what was that?! I want one” then several years later I had referenced it so much my wife said to me some form of “FINE, shut up about it and go buy one.” Several hours later I drove home my favorite vehicle so far.
Ironically, my cars don’t run Linux for the same reason my computers do: I’m militant about protecting my property rights and privacy, so I refuse to have any car new enough to have “infotainment” because it’s all closed-source and Tivoized. It’s effectively hostile, despite the Linux kernel at the bottom of it.
I’ll buy a car made after the mid-2000s when I can re-flash the whole thing with non-DRM’d community-supported software, and not a minute before.
I mean; there’s nothing stopping you from using a car from an earlier era; and bodging in an Android Tablet into your dashboard as an infotainment system.
The thing doesn’t need to be concerned with your climate controls or anything else on your CAN bus for security reasons anyways. So you can leave those controls as they are and just let the tablet replace your Radio effectively for 100% DRM free media enjoyment with your favorite fully rooted and flashed tablet running whatever FLOSS version of Android firmware you like.
I’m in the same boat. So much that I just paid a bunch to replace the transmission of my 2012… I could probably have not done that and invested in something newer, but I don’t… want that…
I’ll stick with just getting more of this exact car when this one isn’t repairable anymore (it has telemetry, but it can’t be accessed without plugging in directly, which isn’t typically a huge concern I have) Or when they can be flashed, as you say. Like I’d love to have an EV because I rarely drive far, but I absolutely won’t buy a spymobile to get one.
Most cars already run on Linux
Until recently, I had a Ford Flex.
The only thing I didn’t like about it was the proud “powered by Microsoft” emblem (and its implications).
SYNC 4 is QNX, the next gen units like the one in the new Lincoln Nautilis is QNX + Android with some Linux on other ECUs. MS is firmly gone from Ford vehicles.
This is useful information and the depth of your knowledge is impressive. Not that I expect operating system expertise from a car salesperson who has no reason to have any, but my salesperson told me it was still Microsoft. Thank you.
Suddenly I miss the Flex just a tiny, tiny bit less.
There’s zero MS in the stack on anything with SYNC4 and newer. Your salesperson is wrong. Even development is largely done on Ubuntu. SYNC 4 has two front ends, one’s Qt which has some Panasonic outsourcing baggage, the newer one is web based. The latter is what’s in the Mach-e. Since about 2017 all of this has moved in house. Ford hired the whole BlackBerry mobile R&D org in late 2016 - people, offices and everything. It’s had an honest-to-god software org since then.
Your Flex probably had the older SYNC iteration that was MS developed. BTW I’m not sure if it was Windows based or whether it was QNX with MS devs creating the software stack on top of it.
Who are you, who are so wise in the ways of
scienceinfotainment development?The entertainment system might run something windows based, but there are dozens of microcontrollers that do run linux.
Sure, and for the eight years I owned it before it broke down beyond being worth repairing, I had no problem with those. The infotainment system did kinda suck, but it was a 2014 so I think it would get some leeway for that even if it weren’t Microsoft powered.
The emblem just offended my sensibilities. I never pulled it off, though, because the friends who rode with me all knew how passionately I feel about Linux (they mostly also work with it - I try not to proselytize to the disinterested) and found it funny.
According to KBB, the car was worth $8k when it broke down. I put almost double that into repairing the same part of the engine at three different mechanics before giving up. Sadly, for some silly reason, Ford no longer makes the Flex. I think the Explorer is pretty close, but I couldn’t find one close enough to test drive. I would have loved to convert my car to an EV, but I wouldn’t trust my own work on that front and didn’t want to pay as much as would cost to have a professional do it.
Every time I get into my new vehicle - a 2024 Ford Edge - I think to myself how much I miss the Flex. That said, I did get a great deal on the Edge.
That’s so painful and I feel for you. I had the same situation with a Honda Element. (I’ve heard of people going to Flexes as a more recent but similar body haha)
Except for me, I broke it myself, and it was a VERY PARTICULAR bolt that nobody wanted to touch. Thing was leaking oil all over the place and nothing could fix it.
Turned a ~$4000 sale price to $800 junker haul-away. :(
But I got 219,000 miles out of it, so…
Here’s to those roomy boxy brick cars everybody called ugly but were absolutely awesome and refused to die…until they did. 🍻
Honestly, it was a car, a thing; I can’t claim legitimate pain. It makes me a little sad on occasion, but overall in my life it won’t matter. My mom, who loved aphorisms, would have said “by the time you’ve been married twice, you’ll forget all about it.” I plan to maintain my first and current marriage, but the sentiment fits.
I am very sorry for the loss of your Element! I was only in one once, but I loved the way the dials worked. Perhaps this humorous lyric from the song “Swagless” by Spose might provide some comfort:
219,000 is pretty solid for any car. I think I bought my Flex at 83,000 miles and sold it at under 100,000. Maybe the starting mileage was 73,000, but somewhere in that vicinity. That included using it as my primary transport vehicle when moving across several hundred miles (which, TBH, is probably what killed it - but I appreciated that I was able to use it and its vast cargo capacity.)
With reference to the toast at the end of the comment, I’ve always loved boxy vehicles. As a kid, my favorite vehicle was my dad’s 1984 Toyota Celica (though his was maroon, unlike the picture). It’s also the car in which I learned to drive a manual.
They don’t make many boxy cars anymore. The first time I saw a Flex was on the highway and I said to my passengers “what was that?! I want one” then several years later I had referenced it so much my wife said to me some form of “FINE, shut up about it and go buy one.” Several hours later I drove home my favorite vehicle so far.
Thanks for the response!
Ironically, my cars don’t run Linux for the same reason my computers do: I’m militant about protecting my property rights and privacy, so I refuse to have any car new enough to have “infotainment” because it’s all closed-source and Tivoized. It’s effectively hostile, despite the Linux kernel at the bottom of it.
I’ll buy a car made after the mid-2000s when I can re-flash the whole thing with non-DRM’d community-supported software, and not a minute before.
I mean; there’s nothing stopping you from using a car from an earlier era; and bodging in an Android Tablet into your dashboard as an infotainment system.
The thing doesn’t need to be concerned with your climate controls or anything else on your CAN bus for security reasons anyways. So you can leave those controls as they are and just let the tablet replace your Radio effectively for 100% DRM free media enjoyment with your favorite fully rooted and flashed tablet running whatever FLOSS version of Android firmware you like.
Personally there’s just certain controls in a car I firmly believe should NEVER be digitized anyways.
I’m in the same boat. So much that I just paid a bunch to replace the transmission of my 2012… I could probably have not done that and invested in something newer, but I don’t… want that…
I’ll stick with just getting more of this exact car when this one isn’t repairable anymore (it has telemetry, but it can’t be accessed without plugging in directly, which isn’t typically a huge concern I have) Or when they can be flashed, as you say. Like I’d love to have an EV because I rarely drive far, but I absolutely won’t buy a spymobile to get one.
I’m taking the same strategy. I never thought I’d be a classic car person.
That’ll literally never happen due to testing and safety requirements.
sounds like jailbreaks are needed then
To a degree yes, but this madman probably has the ECU running Linux.
Linux is not a real-time OS*. For a car ECU, something like Speeduino would be a more appropriate choice.
(* Or wasn’t until a week or so ago, at least. https://www.zdnet.com/article/20-years-later-real-time-linux-makes-it-to-the-kernel-really/)
That’s the joke 😉
You could certainly do it but let’s hope that fuel injection timings and realtime system response aren’t that important to you.
https://lwn.net/Articles/816298/
Worked with the guy, he was a true kernel monster.
That’s really cool! Do you know of real-world systems using this?
Know some router platforms that used this and vfio to implement dpdk switching and routing under a Linux control plane.
Brilliant guys worked on that, think some of the smartnics like Amazon and oracles use it too.