Ok, I think I see your position more clearly now:

You’re thinking about people who are interested and installing based on technical interest and curiosity.

In those cases, I think you’re probably right. There is probably some base competency at play. A desire to learn. Probably someone in their sphere to support.

I’m thinking more about the type of people who would buy a Chromebook. Or my cheap ass parents who want to squeeze another 5 years out of an ailing laptop. They don’t want to spend any money and just want to use Facebook and YouTube. Send some emails. Connect to wifi. Print their boarding passes. Not have their machines riddled with viruses within minutes because their windows OS isn’t getting security updates anymore. I think this is actually a massive use case, and I want Linux to be accessible to them without needing to use the terminal for anything.

I can’t even begin to count the number of times I’ve seen absolutely terrible advice posted and taken regarding how to do things in Linux. Can’t connect to something? Easy, make a blanket iptables rule to permit everything. Something can’t read a file? Chmod 777. Install isn’t working? Just install as root and use root as your general login from there on out.

It’s hard to learn Linux.

But it’s even harder to FORGET what you’ve learned, to empathize with what it was like to not understand it at all. That’s why it’s SO HARD for us who’ve been using it daily for a decade to empathize with newcomers.

It’s why people literally can’t fathom why people are afraid of the terminal.

It’s why, even when someone takes the time to explain why, people go, “nah, that couldn’t possibly be it”

It’s like when gun people can’t comprehend why people are afraid of guns. The answer is obvious they just can’t hear it.

Edit: I think I better understand that there are more nuances around the cases now, and I think I’m being unfair by making blanket statements about what is and isn’t obvious

Right, and so if you have no idea what ANY of it means you just bail back to windows.

IMO, caution, wariness, concern, and unfamiliarity manifest as revulsion.

EVs. Solar panels. Heat pumps. Anything outside of CIS heteronormal relationships.

I’m my experience, after the age of like, 25, people (in GENERAL… Obviously many expectations) feel like they’ve got life figured out and push back against pretty much anything that challenges whatever they’ve grown accustomed to.

Nobody bitched about the DOS prompt when nobody knew how to use computers. Young people learned it. Old people insisted computers were a fad and pushed back entirely.

In my calculation, it’s just typical and predictable human response. Open to other theories though.

I mean, the answer to this is obvious if you can empathize.

Gui has baked into it hints on cause and effect. The terminal is a freeform incantation machine where you need to know and utter magic spells.

sudo rm -rf /

Is just as magically nonsense as

sudo apt-get update

If you don’t know what ANY of it does, your capacity to fuck things up is unbounded on the terminal. In a GUI, rightly or wrongly, you expect your capacity to fuck things up is bounded by the context at hand. I do not expect that I can nuke my system clicking through Firefox.

You can claw the terminal from my cold dead hands, but I’m not offended by the notion of a GUI.

Why? Because developer attention scales broadly by usage. Well used projects get more love. If we could even break 10% home adoption of any Linux distro and the runaway effect of net new developer input would destroy closed source operating systems, and I’m here for it. If that means adding a fucking Ubuntu checkbox to let people enable Wayland without strictly requiring the command line go fucking nuts.

If the goal is to visualize growth trends, I don’t think raw user counts are the correct value to track on the Y-axis at all. That’s where my head was at when I said it doesn’t make sense. Abusing the Y-axis to try and coax data out in this case is just a symptom of having the wrong measure.

Daily new users. Percent user growth.

Yeah when I showed the cop the graph of my speed before getting in my car to be 67000mph (speed of the earth around the sun) to 67080mphwhen I was driving it he couldn’t see the difference so I didn’t get the ticket.

Or sometimes choosing a common-sense reference makes sense.

Which isn’t to say THIS one does, it doesn’t, but the absolutism of “it’s nerf or nothing” is a tad extreme.

I don’t think libertarians really see wage slavery as the worst thing.

I think the fundamental difference is that libertarians don’t care about outcomes. Or, at least they don’t think that they do as long as they have food in their stomach and a barrier against the cold.

In their minds, it’s all about them not being compelled to partake in anything they don’t want to. If that means starving, fine (so they say, and I’m very suspicious of this claim), but at least there was no authority over them.

Most sane people strike a balance between valuing good practical outcomes, and more abstract notions like liberty and justice.

Full authoritarians say that only outcomes are important, that abstract notions like freedom are impediments to the greatest good, and you end up with things like the USSR.

So you’re right that there wouldn’t be a minimum wage… But you’re wrong to appeal to the concept of wage slavery because it presupposes a libertarian values satisfactory outcomes. They don’t.

Honestly there is no talking down a libertarian without first convincing them their lives are worth more than some definition of liberty.

Yes, but I’d argue that capital has a more profound impact than “modern medicine”.

There is a massive MASSIVE selection pressure against reproduction for if you can afford kids or not.

You can look around the world and see countries with amazing health outcomes, beyond anything our ancestors even a few generations back could have dreamed of…

… And yet these countries no longer even have children at a replacement rate.

I’m not saying medicine isn’t a factor… Just saying that in terms of evolutionary pressure, capitalism is even greater a pressure.

Federal law states the punishment is a bare bottom spanking.

😳

You have a tendency to get into protracted arguments that revolve almost entirely around semantics.

I mean, ops comment history is there for the reading.

ESC : q ENTER (assuming you haven’t modified the buffer)?

What’s the two key press exit pattern?

Somebody please do the math which shows the global delta of CO2 related arch vs Ubuntu bloat. I need to know exactly how many dozens of minutes of vespa usage this is equivalent to per year when taken globally.

Yes. So was Spock.

It’s obviously a loaded question.

But I am still curious as to a historical interpretation of events.

Edit: even a historical awareness of events. W/ the Holodomor specifically, I expect in the immediate post WWII landscape, there would be no western interest on even recognizing it as occurred? I expect there would be at least an eastern European awareness, but was their media already under the thumb on the government?

Again, would love just an objective answer to the question instead of people just whattabouting the obvious ragebait

An interesting thing I’ve noticed with Russian and Chinese co workers is their attitude towards propeganda. If you start the sentence:

“All governments are lying to you, so:”

A typical western completion might be “so I need to validate what I’m hearing against what I’m actually seeing”

I’ve met Russian and Chinese people who would finish it “so none of it matters, the real truth is unknowable, and so I’ll choose to believe the truth that facilitates the path of least resistance for me and my family”

Removed by mod

This wasn’t abuse, though.

It was a hash admonishment for the specific choices and actions that the person did that were wrong , and that the person, based on their position of authority should absolutely know to be wrong.

The confluence of factors here are what differentiates this from abuse. By calling this abuse, you’re actually diminishing what actual abuse is.

I think you’ve missed what the sin was, as well as the context of the players.

The sin was not the bad code. Let me say it one more time for clarity: the issue was not the code

The issue was that, when presented with the defect (inevitable outcome of any software project: not intrinsically sinful) Mauro started blaming other people on a public mailing list

Mauro, being a maintainer, was in a position of authority. Like a police officer, their bad behaviour reflected poorly on the organization*as a whole.

If a cop was abusing their power (publicly or not), I expect the chief of police to come down on that abuser; to make clear that this abuse is absolutely unacceptable, not only within the accute instance, but within the greater context of the expectation of the behaviour of the whole organization.

Mauro chose the context of his abusive behaviour as the public mailing list.

Him getting slapped down in that same forum is the direct result of his own choices.

In the same way that I would be upset with the chief of police not publicly and harshy denouncing an abusive police officer, so would I be upset with the absence of such a response in this situation